Curse

Fantus · Aug 25, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

* Also EU > US migrating people might wash their hands in innocence, and say they just do it for the game, but they're definately not making the problem any better. In fact they make the game experience for those people that still want to play for their continent less fun, maybe indirectly, but the effect is noticeable, and it's the sort of problem that exponentially gets worse as well. More people leave, playing in EU is even worse, thus even more people leave, etc. If none of those people migrated in the first place, maybe europe would win more. It's usually the more than casually playing people that migrate because they would care more about the favor, and that's exactly the sort of people Europe needs more.

First, let me say that I am grateful that you chose a non-rude way to express your feelings about people like me - in contrast to that immature kid on page 1 of this thread. I can understand that you might feel we "migrants" are making a bad situation on EU servers even worse. I don't care about the Worlds at War concept - to be completely honest I WANT it to fail, because I think it's not a good idea at all to link PvE and PvP in this manner. I am not sorry for helping WaW fail and I am not sorry for not being a part of a war that I don't want to be a part of (Tombs).
But I am sorry for the other problem that the migration causes - that the EU playerbase that's already very thin at times gets even thinner with more and more people leaving. But if you ever played on EU servers during hours I tend to play (in the morning), you maybe can understand a bit better why I left: In most non major cities, at these hours there often aren't even enough people to form ONE complete team with. As for the Tombs thing, I am not very helpful with that anyway, since I don't play there. The "traitor" posting by that guy made me wish for a minute to join a Tombs team on the US side and help kicking EU teams out of tombs so that guys like him never get favor again. But its good to see there are persons with a more educated view then him. too...

To be honest, I can only think of one good way to really solve that problem - unite EU and US servers. It would solve both the "empty server problem" and the favor thing.

gou · Aug 25, 2005, 02:27 PM // 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

temporary fix:
8 platinum entry fee without favour and 1 platinum with favour

permanent fix:
get rid of favour concept entirely

p.s. notice the spelling of "favour"

Xanthar · Aug 25, 2005, 02:28 PM // 14:28

In answer to Alex Weekes' questions

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

I have played since the first preview event, every beta event and since the early preorder release. I have never been to either FoW or UW.

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

I usually play in the morning, and ocasionally in the evening, CET. I have seen Europe have favour six times. Quite easy to remember actually.

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

I played in the tombs in the month after release, but eventyally got tired of the fact that it often took more than thirty minutes to assemble even a dysfunctional PUG. My guild have shown no interest in playing the tombs.

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

I would suggest a system to reward guild alliances as opposed to "servers" or "regions", especially regions based on real world geography. I would also suggest that the reward is not based on access to content, rather something less tangible. Maybe godly intervension. Some exampels might be: Random "Divine resurrections" in PvE battles for the favour holding faction, morale bonuses, skill efficiency bonuses, energy/health regen bonuses that you can trigger by pleasing the gods in mysterious ways etc. None of which is active in PvP.

I know it's a tricky problem - Winning the hall of heroes is supposed to generate a healthy amount of cred amongst ones peers. There is however a fundamental flaw in the current WaW system (in that there is only rewards for moving to the "top dog" faction, and only punishments for remaining on the loosing side) that would really have to ba adressed in order to have a working system.

In the "alliance of guilds" scenario, one might think that there is a set number of "miracles" available in every minute of play for the favour-holdning faction, leading to an interesting trade-off - How big must the alliance be in order to secure favour for critical endevours (UW/FoW/[Even harder zones]/[Obcenely hard zones]) vs. how small is optimal for still having a good number of miracles for each player in a given timeframe. A system like this punishes bloated factions, yet rewards expansion to a certain level.

Prof-Moriarty · Aug 25, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?
Probably about 5 times and I have been playing since the release.

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?
I usually play for around 4-5h per day from a round 5-6pm GMT onwards and I would say that on average Europe maybe has the favour for 1 hour every 2-3 days or so during that time. However its very possible to go for 4-5 days without Europe ever having the favour during this period.

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?
Yes, almost every day as a guild... but due to the fact that taking the HoH has heavily affected by the spirit spamming that has been dominating Tombs for a while now and the fact that the majority of teams you meet are either American or Korean its no wonder Europe rarely gets the favour.

Also on this note when either me or any of my fellow guild members enter tombs not as a guild team we always go to the International Districts simply because its easier to build effective teams there than it is in the European ones.....

burai · Aug 25, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by gou

temporary fix:
8 platinum entry fee without favour and 1 platinum with favour

Nooo! please don't get me started on the economy. I would be in FoW/UW even less than I am now at 8plat - 1 is enough even without favour.

LaMort · Aug 25, 2005, 03:51 PM // 15:51

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

I think, as has been debated in many places before now, any system that only gives rewards to a winning side while at the same time giving everyone the option to switch sides is not going to work. It is human nature to move on if you are being penalised. The fact that Europe is losing its best players to America is a consequence of this. Changing the "regional" names of each side to one that is a more fitting fantasy one would not alter this. If "Grenths" side appear to win more than another then surely people will just switch again. Also, how ANet would get around mixed allegiances in PUGs in Tombs could be a problem.

The best solution I can think of is to have the WaW system give rewards that dont restrict areas to a whole "side", but give more trivial rewards such as increased faction for PvP and possible a moral boost to PvE mission participants (still leaving the 10% limit).

Limiting the amount of switches from one side to another to 2 or 3 instead of 5 would help a little too. After all how many more months will it be before the majority of Europe has migrated to America and the present flawed WaW system has run its course.

Fantus · Aug 25, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaMort

Limiting the amount of switches from one side to another to 2 or 3 instead of 5 would help a little too.

I needed only 1 switch to leave and I won't come back, so how would 2-3 switches instead of 5 change anything?

Also, cutting down the number of switches would addess the problem - people are leaving for a REASON.

I like your suggestion to change WaW rewards into more trivial things, though. I guess not having trivial things wouldn't cause so many people to change servers.

Darkest Dawn · Aug 25, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

and besides thats where europe falls down: no two european countries like each other. i'm from Scotland (left because impossible to find a group of english speakers) and i cannot work effectivly with french or germans or italians. they all operate in a totally different way and in a different language. i like the germans and will ally with them in HoH. i don't like french people (just because, anyway no-one likes the french) and will team up against them in HoH. spanish? couldn't care less.

europe is not united and that is its problem. we have spent our entire histoy blowing eachother up. why should we stop now?

LOL, Just think of all the cool video games we have as a result of the carnage!

Malthan · Aug 25, 2005, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

I've been playing for almoast 2 months, have 2 level 20 chars and now I'm develpoing a 3rd (level 11 at the moment) and I have never been in WaW maps.

Quote:

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

It had it the day I started playing for a long time, and then it had it once - it lost it 5 minutes after I logged in. I've played for about 140 hours and those are the only 2 times I've seen Europe have favor - and I play mostly in the morning and then in the afternon, I can't stay up playing after midnight so I don't know if it has favor then.

Quote:

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

Not yet but we will.

Quote:

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

4 hours each day - 2 in the morning 2 in the afternoon of the apropriate region of favor for each region, and the remaining hours would be fought for like now.

Andy_M · Aug 25, 2005, 07:41 PM // 19:41

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

Why does a PvP thing affect PvE ? Can someone just explain why, please ?

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

Obviously does not work, remove the link to PvE areas and you can do what the hell you like with it...

Pandora's box · Aug 25, 2005, 07:48 PM // 19:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

About 6 times, all during summerhollidays and after midnight. I've been playing from april, about 500 hrs.

Quote:

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

Since my summerhollidays ended (10 days ago) I never saw them win when I was on. Useually I play at evening for 2-3 hours.

Quote:

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

No. Some of my guildmembers tried but we never have enoug players online to play and with Pugs its very hard. The last 2 weeks only 1-3 players show up at the same time so even the normal GvG matches are not possible right now.

Quote:

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

I would like to introduce a timebased schedule giving those who play at 'normal' times advantage in winning the Favor. Something like this:
0-4: 4 wins needed to gain Favor
4-8: 6 wins
8-12: 8 wins
12-16: 6 wins
16-20: 4 wins
20-24: 2 wins
This means those who play at servers at evening would need only 2 wins to gain favor and those who play in the morning... Well they better go to work/school!

I also like the idea of creating a new special area for those who dont have the bonus.

As an alternative, but as a pve player I hesitate to say... Change the Favor reward into bonusses on fraction points for those who play pvp during the time of Favor. Eventually increase the bonus during evening and decrease them at other times. Pay fraction points for entering FoW or UW. Let FoW and UW be available all day for everyone...

Numa Pompilius · Aug 26, 2005, 01:25 AM // 01:25

I bet that seeing so many people state that they've never or almost never been to the WaW maps is scary reading to ANet.
The fight for the WaW maps is supposed to be a big deal, one of the biggest carrots to keep people playing, not a non-issue where two side always have access during peak hours, and one side never have access during peak hours.

Also, I'm curious... You guys who don't do PvP, why don't you?
For me, what has made it difficult for me to get into PvP is the insanely high initial difficulty and the sneaking suspicion that individual (as opposed to team) skill actually doesn't mean anything at all.

I had this idea that there should be an arena where you can toy around with builds by fighting hench-teams. And some sort of ranking system so newbie players like myself don't have to go up against the elite.

Teufel Eldritch · Aug 26, 2005, 02:25 AM // 02:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Weekes

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

1) I visit the Fow as often as I can. I play for 5+ hours each day & try to get as much FoW time as possible. I would say I have been to FoW over a 100 times & UW something like 50 times.

I've been playing since release.

Special note: As a strictly PvE person I find it very...hmmm.. inconvient to have PvPers determine game content me.

2) Well Europe used to get Favor once a day or so iirc. Something like 1-4 hours. Nowadays tho America always has Favor as many Euros have moved. Korea has Favor a lot less now too. I would say Korea has Favor now the same amount as Europe used to.

3) I don't play in the Tombs, my guild isn't big on PvP either tho some do go to the Tombs.

4) I don't have any ideas for changes. I've seen some pretty damn good ideas on this forum & even in this thread about WaW tho.

EverBlue · Aug 26, 2005, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tactical-Dillusions

I liked what everblue said..."permanently for awhile"

Yes. You heard me. Permanently for awhile.

...

/Cough

SOT · Aug 26, 2005, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Byebye Euro.

Shanaeri Rynale · Aug 26, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

* How many times have you visited the WaW maps (FoW and UW)? How long have you been playing for?

About 10-15 times since May.

* How often does Europe hold the Favour during your normal play time, and what time is that?

Hardly ever during what I would call 'normal' hours I.e from 6pm-11pm GMT
From midnight to 2am it has done occasionally.

* Do you, or your guild, play in the Tombs in an attempt to win the Favour for Europe? If so, how often?

No, because we prefer PvE

* IF changes to WaW were made, do you have any suggestions?

The WaW is a great idea in theory but why not link it with pure PVP benefits.

For example the region that has favour get X2 faction in all PvP areas. Not only would that encourage the PvP fans(who dont really care that much for PvE), it would fit much better into the Lore of the game. After all if you have favour you should be rewarded with more faction from Balthazar??

Then let the PvE people enjoy the fissure/UW as they stand now, without all this silly messing around with regions that do not fit into the 'lore' of the game.

I've read the suggestions that Europe should play more PvP, but IMHO it's gone beyond the point of repair, major EU guilds have defected and PvE people have moved in their droves.

It would'nt require much code change(the multiply faction code is already there and would solve the problem for everyone.

To be honest I'm surprised Anet does'nt know when different regions get favour or for how long. All you would need to do, is every time favor changes would be to write a time stamped entry into a log file. Then say over a period of a month just count them up. Then the scale of the issue, rather than the perception of an issue would then be revealed.

It would also resolve the emptying of the entire regions of the map problem, when Europe gets favour. Everyone rushes to the ToA to try and get any old team before its taken away.

The map emptying issue means that anyone trying to get a group for say Thunderhead keep may a well give up, because all the ascended players are screaming LFG at the ToA. This obviously detracts from their enjoyment and leads to uneccessary frustration.

I fully realise that the ANet and development team are maxed out but whenever I ask people why they moved, the answer is always because of the favor system.

PvP issues have been resolved(well, ish) by the new patch so please focus on the Favor issue before most players either give up, or move to the US.

IMHO forget about other enhancements, fix the favour issue and you effectivley open up two more high level PvE regions, which will greatly assist in keeping the interest levels up until chapter two comes out.

trelloskilos · Aug 26, 2005, 09:09 AM // 09:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I bet that seeing so many people state that they've never or almost never been to the WaW maps is scary reading to ANet.
The fight for the WaW maps is supposed to be a big deal, one of the biggest carrots to keep people playing, not a non-issue where two side always have access during peak hours, and one side never have access during peak hours.

Also, I'm curious... You guys who don't do PvP, why don't you?
For me, what has made it difficult for me to get into PvP is the insanely high initial difficulty and the sneaking suspicion that individual (as opposed to team) skill actually doesn't mean anything at all.

I had this idea that there should be an arena where you can toy around with builds by fighting hench-teams. And some sort of ranking system so newbie players like myself don't have to go up against the elite.

I have to say, that having a training arena is a very good idea.

I've also experienced the rudeness and jostling in ToPK with team leaders not just looking for characters with specific primary and secondary builds, but then insisting that they take skills A,B,C,D,E,F,G and H with them. Of course, if the poor recruit doesn't have all 8 of the required skills to hand, they're kicked off just after the leader types "OMFG u n00b!!!" (Similar things happen in ToA when Europe have favour)

Of course, this is just the leader trying to work with what he/she is used to, rather than take the party on its own merits, and PUG groups in ToPK suffer from this quite badly. The first area where the undead have to be cleared is difficult enough with a PUG and is over too swiftly for a group to be able to adapt to eachother and discover what works best for them.

Having the training area with simpler henchies different abilities allows even the most incohesive PUG team to fine-tune themselves, and encourages innovation and new discoveries for PvP builds.

trelloskilos · Aug 26, 2005, 10:40 AM // 10:40

....and now with PvPX weekend, and the tweaking of skills, it's going to be even more difficult for Europe to get in.

I'm not going to comment on any particular PvP tournament team, but it's a known fact that many PvP teams who gain favour do so by abusing spirit spamming. Now that this is out of the window, the gloves are off.

Now, I know nothing whatsoever about how the victorious Euro-guilds like Esoteric Warriors get their results, but whether they are spirit spammers or not becomes a moot point. The reliability of ALL tournament teams has suddenly become shaky, and people encouraged by the PvPX event are forming new teams.

Now, the ratio of players on the US and Korean servers to the players on Euro servers is the issue here. A similar pattern will emerge on all 3 servers. New teams, new builds, new developments etc., but due to the smaller scale of players on the Euro server, the number of new teams/builds etc will be naturally scaled down.

Only those that have had previous experience in HoH, and who can work around the update will prevail. If guilds like Esoteric Warriors weren't spirit spamming, then Europe have a good fighting chance. If Esoterics and other Euro Tournament winners were spirit spamming, then it could be a looooong time before Europe see favour again.

coolsti · Aug 26, 2005, 01:18 PM // 13:18

This is crazy! Each time I log on to the European servers, there are more and more players (in PVE). The game is steadily growing in popularity still.

Dreamcatcher X · Aug 26, 2005, 01:52 PM // 13:52

ok, i'm getting a little worried now....

It seems the WaW concept seems to have been lost by most European players.

Im from the good old UK and i'm frustrated by european players migrating to US servers to 'farm' FOW & UW. The good news is that 105/55 build monks are now nerfed and farming will become more dependent on team work and not soloing.

Surely if the european players migrate to the US servers then eventually the euro servers will become ghost towns? I just think this would be a down right shame. Wouldn't it be good if the european players would get together and fight together collectively instead of just converting to US servers and admitting failure? There are many many talented PvP euro players out there.

come on guys n girls lets put our euro heads together